Site Map | Search This Site | Contact Site Owner

Scoopers & Friends Discussion Board Archives

Messages archived from the Scoopers & Friends Discussion Board, going back to May of 1998. The discussion board board is an online forum about the business of pet-waste removal. Browse the messages, CLICK HERE TO SEARCH by keyword, or click here to participate in current discussions.

Message Date/Time:
Wednesday, 03-Mar-99 09:42:43

"...should we spend the money..." ... My wife and I are trying to get a pooper scooper business going, we have the equipment, we have business cards and flyers, and have put them in local pet shops. We put an ad in the paper, but it is under the legal notices for assumed names. We have had these advertisements out for about a week and haven't got one call.Are we starting at the wrong time of year? It's still about 20 degrees here in Rockford, Illinois.Do you think more people would be thinking about clean yards when it gets warmer?The legal notice was only $30 for three weeks, but a business classified ad is $200 for a month, should we spend the money, or can someone tell me where, when, and how to display our business cards, flyers etc. that has worked for them. Can someone tell us about direct mailings, where do you get addresses?Any help would be appreciated.

Message Date/Time:
Friday, 05-Mar-99 02:05:44

Re: "...should we spend the money..." ... Hi John,

I think now is the time to advertise. I say spend the money, but for goodness sake put it in a more appropriate classification. Put it under "Pets" or "Pet Services" if your paper has one of those categories in their classified ads.
Also consider sending out news releases if you haven't done that already. Getting your business in the news is the most affordable, yet most powerful, form of marketing available to a small business.
In my book, "The Professional Pooper-Scooper: How to start your own low-cost, high-profit dog waste removal service," you'll find samples of classified ads, news releases, fliers, radio scripts and more. :)

Matthew
matthew@pooper-scooper.com

Message Date/Time:
Friday, 05-Mar-99 20:44:02

Re: "...should we spend the money..." ... The purpose of the legal classification in the newspaper is to let people know you're doing business under an assumed name. Nobody searches there for any type of service, much less ours. The sole purpose of that classification is a legal one.

It seems to me in the way of advertising our business is that people don't even know they need our type of service, so they don't go looking for it.

To draw attention to your service, by all means, send out press releases. We sent out but two and got a 1/2 page in the local newspaper (complete with picture) and two free spots on the talk radio station. We also heavily advertise with fliers and we re-flier an area every two months.

We're not sure that a real "ad" in the local paper is worth it, as I said above, because people really need to have their attention drawn to our type of service. We are currently considering, though, a flier insert in the local paper as we feel it will have much more impact than an 1/8th page ad, which is all we can afford.

Results to be announced.

Good luck!

Michele

Message Date/Time:
Thursday, 04-Mar-99 17:15:48

Routing/Scheduling with Clients ... Hello everyone!

My business partner and I are just about ready to pull our hair out! Every last client and prospect we talk to wants to know *exactly* when we will be at their property to scoop. We actually lost a client because she was so aprehensive about her dog escaping the fence and wanted us to be there at exactly 6:30PM so that she could be there while we scooped.

We have tried to give people approximate times, but we have so many people changing days last minute, new clients & referrals, people needing an immediate cleaning, that we just can't forecast when we will be at a property, even for ourselves.

Does anyone else have this problem, and how do you deal with it? Diplomacy and patience are not really working for us, and it is getting quite stressful for us as literally EVERY PERSON wants highly detailed and personalized service. We try our best, but that level of service is not completely realistic.

Thank you!
Erin
Dirty Work™

Message Date/Time:
Friday, 05-Mar-99 01:59:14

Re: Routing/Scheduling with Clients ... I can sympathize with you! :)
I would only give a 2-hour range of time for the customer to expect service.
How do you have "...so many people changing days last minute..."? When you are busy, customers can't just change days on you. You give them a schedule when they sign up, and you tell them what day you will clean. If you offer a choice of days, you can't just let them change it at the last minute.
And "immediate cleaning" just might not be possible. Again, you have to schedule work, and even if a customer has some choice when you set up the schedule, it wouldn't be in the best interest of all the other clients for one person to upset the whole business at her whim. When you get busy, you will just have to tell new clients that you can't give an exact time, but you can give them a range of two hours. You also will have to explain to some that the earliest you can get to their yard is next Thursday, for example.
Of course, you have your own judgement and discretion, and maybe you can make exceptions in very rare and very urgent cases. That's up to you. Diplomacy and patience will always be good to use, but they won't create more than 24 hours in a day, or keep the sun from going down before you finish a route.
It will help if you have a clear set of answers for these kinds of questions that are bound to arise.
You can be polite and professional at the same time. You do want to please the customer, but you don't have to let him run your business.

It's a great topic, by the way! :) I look forward to hearing from others on this.


Matthew
matthew@pooper-scooper.com

Message Date/Time:
Friday, 05-Mar-99 12:26:38

Re: Routing/Scheduling with Clients ... We're like the utility companies--we give an a.m. or p.m. range to meet their dogs the first time, then we tell them we won't give a specific time for regular cleaning because our route changes day to day (because we're growing, working around day jobs, etc.). Come summer, we'll probably have to change our schedules around to accomodate yard services. By then, we'll have hired more employees and be able to be more flexible than our current Friday and Saturday only service.

Maybe we never get any push-back on our scheduling because don't sound like there's an alternative. When we first talk to people, we say "We're doing service in your area on such and such a day--and we'd love to have you as our customer. Will that work for you?" We also listen to their concerns about meeting their dog(s) so we can be sure we're hearing exactly what the issue is and offer alternative solutions, if possible. Mostly we like to leave it up to them to solve their problem--like "If your dog is uncomfortable with strangers, but we can't guarantee an exact time, what do you suggest doing so that we can help you get your yard cleaned up on a regular basis?" They'll usually suggest keeping the dog in for that a.m. or p.m. block of time.

If someone gets insistent about the time, we explain why we can't get that tightly scheduled. If they remain insistent, then we're willing to let them go. You can't please everyone.

Message Date/Time:
Saturday, 06-Mar-99 17:27:16

Re: Routing/Scheduling with Clients ... Thank you to Matthew and Linda for their (as always!) quick and insightful responses.

I suppose our dilemma is that we are struggling so for new clients that we have a very hard time being firm, even where it would be completely appropriate and correct for us to be firm and say no, even at the expense of losing that client.

Again, I sincerely thank you for sharing your thoughts and insights -- it has given us a lot to think about is very helpful.

Erin & Cara
Dirty Work™

Message Date/Time:
Tuesday, 09-Mar-99 10:49:02

Re: Re: Routing/Scheduling with Clients ... "We service that area on Tuesday"

That generally works well for us.

"We offer twice a week service in that area for only slightly more per week."

That works well, too. The customer has an option, and we've made it clear that the extra costs a little extra.

As Matthew pointed out, PET BUTLER used to give a two hour window. We also missed a lot of two hour windows, so we stopped it several years ago.

Here's a phrase that I find effective.

"With the high demand we're experiencing right now, and all the new customers on our route, I'm simply unable to tell you what time we'll be there."

In addition to saying you can't specify a time, you create a sense of urgency to buy.

Message Date/Time:
Thursday, 04-Mar-99 23:58:54

startup ... Hey- I'm another jerk thinking about a start-up, only I've been thinking about it for over a year. First, I'm unfamiliar with "Matthew's book" so if someone could point me there, I'd be grateful. Also, if anyone would like to address the parvo issue, disposal methods (because I throw my own in the trash), licensing (although I know you don't know my locality, please just give me the gist of it), and issues of animal confrontation. Do you have an agreement that your yards will not have dogs in them or what? Disinfecting my shoes? What if I'm just careful not to step in it? And how about contracting with apartment communities and municipal park people? Someone must have thought of that already. Would you start on your own or put in time with an established player like Pet Butler and then split off? So many questions...Please e-mail any info you can, kind scoopers.

Milo

Message Date/Time:
Friday, 05-Mar-99 01:46:01

Re: startup ... Hi Milo,
I'm the Matthew of "Matthew's book." :) I started a dog waste service back in 1988, and it became very successful over the years. Though I started with only $150 and a few spare hours between working two jobs, the business grew to serve more than 650 clients every week, with seven employees and a fleet of six pickup trucks.
Eventually I compiled my decade of successful experience into a complete startup manual, which I call "The Professional Pooper-Scooper: How to start your own low-cost, high-profit dog waste removal service."
Questions such as the very ones you asked, as well as many, many other details, are addressed in the manual. You'll find more information about the book, how I got started, frequently asked questions, and more on our web site at
www.pooper-scooper.com. The price of the book is $31.95, payable to Matthew Osborn, send to Matthew Osborn, P.O. Box 132308, Columbus OH 43213.
Now -- about your questions. :)
Canine Parvovirus, or Parvo, is extrememly contagious and can be passed from an infected dog's yard to another on shoes or tools. I recommend using a new plastic bag lining your scoop at every job, and spraying your shoes, scoop, and shovel with a disinfectant specifically designated for kennel use.
No matter how careful you are, eventually you'll step in it. :) [As for the parvo issue, even if you don't step directly in a pile, I think your shoes and tools could become contaminated from the yard.]
It's a good idea to visit a veterinarian for a discussion about parvo and other health issues related to this kind of work.
As for dogs being in yards, there is actually quite a lot to say on the subject, more than what there's room for here. But most of the time the dogs aren't in the yards, and when they are, we usually get along well with them. There will sometimes be dogs that one can't work with, and in those cases you'll need to work something out with the owner.
Commercial clients, that is, apartment and condominium grounds, can be good customers. Commercial work requires a different approach than residential work, though. Such places should be serviced more frequently, if possible. And charging according to the number of dogs could be more problematical, since you never know exactly how many dogs there are.
Commercial jobs can be more work for less profit compared to the number of residential customers you could do in the same amount of time. On the other hand, the checks from such clients are many times larger. :)

Message Date/Time:
Friday, 05-Mar-99 22:11:24

Liability Insurance ... Hello Fellow Scoopers
I'm on the verge of opening a pooper scooper service and was wondering if you could pass along the name of your insurance carrier. My local agent said it might be of help for her to contact insurance companies who are currently uderwriting pooper scooping businesses. Any help would be appreciated. Happy Scooping!
Mick
Scoopity Doo Dog

Message Date/Time:
Saturday, 06-Mar-99 17:30:27

Re: Liability Insurance ... What a great question! We have given up on becoming insured (for the time being) because we not been able to get someone to underwrite the policy. Amidst the giggles and guffaws of the agents, the bottom line is, they can't find someone to underwrite us. They don't know if we should be waste removal, lawn care, etc. etc. After about 5 months, we decided to take a little break from looking and revisit the issue later. I am eager to see the responses!

Erin

Message Date/Time:
Sunday, 07-Mar-99 00:24:31

Re: Liability Insurance ... o'conner insurance in st. louis, no problem with them taking care of ours
314-4340038 i beleive tell them yuckos sent you

Message Date/Time:
Sunday, 07-Mar-99 06:34:51

Re: Liability Insurance ... I buy insurance through a local independent agent, Putnam Insurance here in Columbus, Ohio. The insurer was Western Reserve Group.

Message Date/Time:
Sunday, 07-Mar-99 09:31:51

Re: Liability Insurance ... Is there " Really " a need to become insured? Why not make up a disclaimer form and have the customer read and sign it and give them there own copy? I don't plan on becoming insured anytime soon if I can help it. Can't afford it at this time. If anyone can give me a good reason to be insured or to not be insured please post it here. Right now I'm just working out of my home and use my own truck and throw the stuff away in my trash can. The city said that was fine until I really get way to many customers. Talk to you'll soon !!!!!!

Frank

K-9 Connections

Message Date/Time:
Sunday, 07-Mar-99 23:57:22

Why have insurance? ... Running into someone with your vehicle, having a prize-winning breeding dog escape from the yard and get lost or hit by a car while you're cleaning, or that escaped dog bites a neighbor's child, or you unknowingly track parvo from one yard to 25 other yards, accidentally breaking an outdoor sculpture or dropping a bag of dog poop in somebody's hot tub, ... well, those last two might be slightly far-fetched, but certainly not impossible....
Off the top of my head, these are just a few risks that are unlikely, but possible.
Being insured is also a sign of professionalism and responsibility. It helps instill and promote confidence in your prospects and clients, and indicates that you are serious about your business.

Message Date/Time:
Monday, 08-Mar-99 09:48:13

Re: Liability Insurance ... Thanks Matt,

I must have been having an off day at that time. I guess I will have to rethink what I must do to make things better for my biz.

Frank

Message Date/Time:
Monday, 08-Mar-99 13:15:38

Re: Re: Liability Insurance ... To echo what Matthew was stating in reference to the reasons for insurance, we have found that no matter how small the liklihood of actually needing the insurance is, certain clients will feel much more at ease if you are insured. Like Frank, we really do not have the money what with just starting up. However, we have had a couple of neighborhood associations say no to us because we were not insured (so far, they are the only ones to ever have asked). Just being able to have one of those accounts would have paid for our insurance annually.

Also, in Atlanta at least, all of our pet service peers have "BONDED & INSURED" prominetly displayed on all their literature and business cards. This might be all in my head, but it makes me feel somehow less professional in comparrison not to be bonded and/or insured.

Now if I can only find someone to underwrite the policy... :)

Just my 2 cents.
Erin

Message Date/Time:
Tuesday, 09-Mar-99 10:25:09

Re: Re: Re: Liability Insurance ... Just a quick reminder that if you are using your personal truck and do not have commercial insurance, you may not have any insurance at all. I carry million dollar coverage for liability. That cost is much lower than my truck insurance. I would think $100,000 would be pretty cheap and easy to find. At worst, you might have to pay the same rate as a lawn mowing service.

Westfield insurance, handled locally by an independent agency, Putnam Insurance.

Message Date/Time:
Saturday, 13-Mar-99 02:22:41

Re: Liability Insurance ... Hartford

Message Date/Time:
Sunday, 21-Mar-99 11:22:23

Re: Liability Insurance ... I READ MATT'S RESPONSE AND HE IS RIGHT ON TARGET.
THERE ARE MANY SCENARIOS THAT ARE DIFFICULT TO THINK OF BUT, CAN EASILY HAPPEN AND LEAD TO A LIABILITY CLAIM. MOST INDIVIDUAL'S ENGAGED IN THE POOPER SCOOPER REALM OF DOGGY CARE PROPBABLY ARE NOT JUST LIMITED TO ONLY POOPER SCOOPER NICHE. THEY MAY BE INVOLVED IN GROOMING, DOG SITTING ECT. THERE ARE PLENTY OF INSURANCE COMPANY'S THAT CAN COVER ALL OF THESE EXPOSURES INCLUDING ANY INCIDENTAL PROFESSIONAL LIABILITY EXPOSURES (IE: I DON'T LIKE MY DOGS HAIR CUT AND NOW WE CAN'T COMPETE IN THE DOG SHOW THAT I DEFINETLY WOULD HAVE WON THE $10,000

Message Date/Time:
Sunday, 07-Mar-99 11:48:16

Questions, questions, questions!! ... I got an offer to do a proposal on an apartment complex. In the proposal I pointed out that we will remove the waste off the property. Currently I am disposing the waste from my regular customers with my own trash pickup, but if I do get this commmercial job, can I still dispose of the waste with my own garbage? There are 32 units with about 80% dogs. That's a lot of waste to bring home. Any suggestions?

Question #2: There are 4 families to a building. If I have to disinfectant and change bags at each occupant's apartment, I would have to stop every five minutes or so to disinfectant, change bags and start again. Any suggestions on a speedier, healthier way to handle this?

Last question: If they accept this proposal, do I have to come up with some kind of "contract of agreement" or is this something that the apartment complex takes care of?

Please advise and thanks for the information!!
Pat

Message Date/Time:
Sunday, 07-Mar-99 23:45:45

Re: Questions, questions, questions!!

Message Date/Time:
Wednesday, 10-Mar-99 06:09:09

Re: Re: Questions, questions, questions!! ... Thanks for the info - very much appreciated

Message Date/Time:
Wednesday, 10-Mar-99 11:03:21

Re: Questions, questions, questions!! ... Pat- RE:disposal of waste- You might want to check city/county ordinances. Here in Sacramento I was told I HAD to drop the bags into the customer's garbage can (not the greenwaste or recycle cans) and that if I hauled it away with me I'd need a license to haul hazardous waste. I'm sure my neighbors appreciate that!

Message Date/Time:
Saturday, 13-Mar-99 02:39:40

Re: Re: Questions, questions, questions!! ... I do several apts.
I would ditto Matthew and as always, recommend his book highly to anyone before they start asking a lot of questions. (I realize you have the book already Pat, this comment/endorsement was not at all directed toward you.)
I never have them sign any contracts.
I change the bags when full.
I usually leave the bags in the large dumpsters around the complexes. The issue has never come up. All the apt. mangers care about is that the waste and smell have disappeared. They don't know the questions to ask nor do I go into a long disortation on the importance of a quality parvocidal disinfectant after every few scoops. This is not to imply that I do not care about my customers or that I hide any information from them but doing something like leaving the bags in a huge dumpster that is emptied often is completely acceptable without ever bringing it up.
Keep up the great work! It sounds like you are really pouring yourself into the business.
Best regards,
Red

Message Date/Time:
Monday, 15-Mar-99 06:15:05

Re: Re: Re: Questions, questions, questions!! ... Thanks Red for the advice. I sure hope they go for the proposal. It would be great for business, not to mention the self-esteem :)

Take care
Pat

Message Date/Time:
Wednesday, 10-Mar-99 11:07:22

Bags for lobby pan ... Waggin' Tails K 9 Waste Removal (in Orangevale, California, serving the Sacramento area) recently passed along the following tip:

RE: bags to fit inside rubbermaid lobby
pan... Check out your local janitorial supply shop and ask for 20x21 dark
office liners. They have just enough stretch to avoid tears and are not see-
through. They'll hold a whole week's worth of waste from 1-3 dogs depending on
diet, and perfectly fit the lobby pan with enough overlap to tie a good knot.
Box of 1000 runs about $25. Been using them for the past 10 years with no
problems. Happy Hunting!!!

Message Date/Time:
Wednesday, 10-Mar-99 22:21:09

Interested...but can I really make money??? ... I'm interested in starting a pooper scooper business, but I'm wondering how much money there potentially is in this job? I'm not asking anyone to give me their financial statements but I would like a realistic figure of profits for the first quarter, first year, and after. Also I live in Illinois, does your business decline in the winter months? I appreciate anyone's information. Thanks!

Message Date/Time:
Tuesday, 16-Mar-99 10:13:10

Re: Interested...but can I really make money??? ... Of course individual results vary widely. In my own service I started very small and grew slowly (thought the percentage of increase from year to year was quite high). In my first year I made only about $2,500. That doubled, then doubled again, and several years later my service was grossing over $20,000/month, with more than 650 weekly clients, 7 employees, and a fleet of 6 pickup trucks.
I know of a service in Texas that started with $10,000 and grew much more quickly. That one had 300 customers before the first year was over.
A service in San Jose, California sent out postcards addressed in the DOG's name and reported getting 100 customers in the first month or two.
Some people go several weeks or a month or two before getting even the first customer. And of course, there are some people who try to get started but for any number of reasons never do succeed, and they go out of business.
There are many factors involved in success.
Getting out the word, proper pricing, outstanding customer service, public and press relations (publicity), managing costs, your own seriousness about professionalism, all these and more affect your income.

Matthew
matthew@pooper-scooper.com

Message Date/Time:
Friday, 12-Mar-99 07:14:10

KY scoopers wanted ... Hi Everyone!

A customer called me who is looking for a pooper-scooper service you services Northern Kentucky. She is out of my territory. If anyone handles the northern Kentucky area, give me a call at (513)459-8455 or email me and I will turn you on to her name.

thanks!

Message Date/Time:
Sunday, 14-Mar-99 22:53:38

Other people getting email inquiries? ... Greetings, everyone!

I was wondering if my scooping-peers got as many emails from prospective scoopers? I am getting several a week, and they aren't people (usually) who post their questions on the message board.

It has gotten so heavy that I had to start an auto-responder! I was wondering if other established dog waste removal businesses were running into this as well?

Curiously yours,
Erin
Dirty Work™

Message Date/Time:
Tuesday, 16-Mar-99 01:02:03

Re: Other people getting email inquiries? ... Just 2 in the last few months.
I'm not sure if it would be a blessing or a curse. Probably the latter.
But with success comes responsibility!
Here's to more responsibility!
Red
Pet Butler, Dallas

Message Date/Time:
Monday, 15-Mar-99 02:19:31

New Scooper In Town! ... Hello To Everyone!

I guess I am the new kid on the block. I have enjoyed reading all about all of my fellow scoopers. Thank You for all of the wonderful information that you have given to us. You make our path much easier to walk.

I have chatted with Matthew and Erin and Cara. What a pleasure. I was a little nervous entering into your circle. A little about me... I am 32(uugghh!I hate that.) I work in our emergency room here in rural Northern California, not a true trauma center, but the nearest one is over 60 miles away, so we get our fair share. I am newly married, a little over a year. He is a deputy sheriff. Together we have four boys, two cars, a guinea pig, and a busy life. We lost my husband's Police K9 to cancer a year ago, Thanksgiving. So far, it has been too difficult to bring another wonderful dog into our home.
The idea for our business came from a book my oldest son had, Fast Cash for Kids. We soon thought of a name, boy, did we have some good ones. I don't think that they would have been printable. At first, we thought it would just be some fly by night, sort of thing. I then really started doing some homework on the business and soon realized that this was going to be a BUSINESS! We are EXCITED! I can be with my boys, they can learn some wonderful business applications and responsibilities as they grow. They are all on the verge of teenhood, so as they reach the age of really being able to work, hopefully, I will have a teriffic business for them to step into and get them through college.

Thank You again, for all of the great information. It is so valuable to us youngsters of the scooping world. I hope we don't step on too many toes or step in anything else! I know how busy everyone must be.
Sincerely,
Tiffani
"Side Steppers", The Professional Pooper Scoopers
Sutter, California

Message Date/Time:
Monday, 15-Mar-99 10:22:32

Re: New Scooper In Town! ... Welcome to the Scoop World

I love the name you choose for your business!!!

Best of Luck to you
Pat

Message Date/Time:
Monday, 15-Mar-99 12:39:42

Re: New Scooper In Town! ... I love your enthusiasm. It makes me vicariously remember my own, when we first got started. Actually, I still feel that way--excited every time we get a new customer. We're now making about $1,200/month (before taxes and expenses), and we still only work Friday and Saturday. We've hired one part-timer who takes several customers on Saturday morning (she wanted to earn pocket change to help feed her horses). Since we don't want to quit our day jobs just yet, we'll keep giving new customers to our employee until we hit the next wave of critical mass and have to either hire someone else or one of us go part time at our "real" jobs. Isn't this fun!?!

Message Date/Time:
Monday, 15-Mar-99 16:13:38

Re: New Scooper In Town! ... We spoke via email, but here's a public "welcome aboard!!!"

I am sure you are going to do great, and your enthusiasm & creativity is sure to serve you well :)


Erin
Dirty Work™

Message Date/Time:
Tuesday, 16-Mar-99 00:58:13

Re: New Scooper In Town! ... WELCOME!
Great Name!
Discouragement will come your way but stay focused, get Matthew's book, and read this sight often.
We are here to be your cheering squad!
Now go get 'em!
Red
Pet Butler, Dallas, TX

Message Date/Time:
Tuesday, 16-Mar-99 12:53:58

Re: New Scooper In Town! ... WELCOME TO THE SCOOPER'S CLUB OF AMERICA!!!

The name is great, I think all of us have done that everytime we go out and doo a job. If there is anything " WE " can help you with just ask. Good luck.

Frank

K-9 Connections