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Scoopers & Friends Discussion Board Archives

Messages archived from the Scoopers & Friends Discussion Board, going back to May of 1998. The discussion board board is an online forum about the business of pet-waste removal. Browse the messages, CLICK HERE TO SEARCH by keyword, or click here to participate in current discussions.

Message Date/Time:
Saturday, 27-Mar-99 23:31:02

Press releases ... I'm eating alot of message space as questions loom in my head. I have read Matthews book and I feel a little thick because I still don't understand how you get a press release in a paper or on the radio. It is advertising so how do you get around paying for it. How do you approach the paper. Our one local paper has a home and garden section on Saturdays and I think that would be an ideal place but is that where a press release would go? Please help me see the light.
Thanks again to all those helpful people and especially Matthew who obviously spends countless hours helping many people learn the biz.

Message Date/Time:
Sunday, 28-Mar-99 17:47:30

Re: press releases ... Contrary to what may be a popular image of the news-gathering process, most news stories on TV and in the newspaper are not discovered by reporters as a result of keenly observing the world and doggedly digging out the news of the day. No, the great majority of all news stories start out in life as a press release from the desk of some public relations professional, small business person, or other interested writer trying to create public awareness of something for his own reasons.
News media are dependent on these notices of what's going on in the world. They need them. Sometimes they might even be desperate for them. There's just not enough money or reporters to independently ferret out all the information about events of interest to readers, viewers and listeners. They have increasing amounts of air-time and lots of print space to fill; without leads for stories, they'd be at wit's end to produce enough material to fill newspapers and broadcasts.
(By the way,I think many people would be shocked to learn how much even of so-called "hard news," like stories about foreign wars, begin in the minds and word processors of paid publicity agents.)
While publicity is the most powerful and cost-effective method of marketing available to entrepreneurs, it's not the same as advertising. Advertising is controlled by the advertiser. You buy your space or your air time and pretty much schedule it for whenever you want it (if you can afford it) and you say exactly what you want to say.
Publicity is controlled by the editors and news directors of the media that carry the story. They decide what is newsworthy, what they think will be of interest and/or importance to their readers and viewers, when and where any resulting stories will appear (or won't appear) and exactly what will be said, shown, and written in the stories. There is never a guarantee that a particular news release will be used at all, in fact.
The media/business relationship with regard to press releases is a symbiotic relationship. They need us for leads and sometimes for whole stories, and we need them to help spread our messages.
That's why it doesn't cost anything to get a news release picked up and used. Even though a business may benefit from a news story, the medium carrying the story benefits as well, as do that medium's customers.
News releases are sent to editors and news directors, not to advertising or sales departments. In fact, in the public relations profession it is considered a breach of ethics to connect advertising with news in a direct way. There should be no connection between the amount of money an advertiser spends and the amount of news coverage that business may receive. (Of course, this "rule" gets bent a little from time to time. Notice how the local news' 11:00 broadcast so often contains stories on the same topic as that evening's "Movie of the Week"?)
So..... all of this is why it's so important that a news release should actually be newsworthy, written in a "newsy" style, should be focused on the public's interest and need to know.
Hmmm.... didn't mean to write too much for a message board post, but it's interesting material -- at least to me it is. :) If you want to learn more about the ins and outs of press releases, publicity, and the news, there are many fascinating books on the subject in your local public library. Some good ones are:
Bade, Nicholas E: "Marketing Without Money"
Ramacitti, David F.: "Do-It-Yourself Publicity"
Levine, Michael Levine: "Guerilla P.R."

The bottom line for our purpose here, though, is not so complicated: News people in your home town want to know what's going on that might be of interest to their readers and viewers. Your news release is very helpful to them in their work. A well-written, thoughtful news release may alert the editors to something they believe their customers will want to know about and/or be interested in hearing about.
What separates the news release from advertising is who controls it. You control your advertising, the media control the news. That's why you don't have to pay to get the news story. :)

Matthew
matthew@pooper-scooper.com

Message Date/Time:
Tuesday, 30-Mar-99 10:24:06

Re: Press releases ... Thank you for your detailed reply Matthew. I have also found a superb web-site which gives very detailed and easy to understand intruction on press releases. It is www.friendscalib.org/f4pr.htm. I've looked at many many sites and this, by far, is the best.
Yesterday I opened my mailbox, copied my fliers, took out an ad in a small paper $45 for 1 month. (1 x wk release), and visited some vets and grooming agencies to post my fliers. I also went to a pricey neighborhood but I hear no dogs so I only delivered to homes with fences so as not to waste my flyers. I will keep you updated on my progress..kind of a diary of a business... what worked and what didn't in this "virgin" area of the country (virgin meaning no businesses such as this have cropped up here yet). Day two...write a good release and seek out all avenues of media. Will write again in a week or so with progress.

Message Date/Time:
Sunday, 04-Apr-99 16:11:15

Re: Press releases Web Site ... Greetings Trish!

I would be interested in the site you mentioned but the link you entered comes up as host unknown...any chance you mistyped the link?

Message Date/Time:
Wednesday, 31-Mar-99 13:20:35

MAPPING - ROUTING ... Does anyone know of software that does mapping?
I'm looking for a program that when I enter an address, I can get a map with the route but also written driving directions and mileage, like you can get on Yahoo.

Barbara

Message Date/Time:
Wednesday, 14-Apr-99 13:48:23

Re: MAPPING - ROUTING ... Street Wizard (about $70) will do that, but not as well as you can do it yourself. I own Street Wizard. I rarely use it. Metro Graphic Arts Inc 900 40th St SE Grand Rapids MI makes the best paper map I've ever seen. If there is one for your city, invest $5.

I route over 700 customers by looking them up on a paper map hanging on my wall.

Message Date/Time:
Thursday, 01-Apr-99 09:59:00

Re: the reply to Charging for simple pick-up disposal ... Thank you for the advise, Matthew!

One addendum to that particular query, though, do you charge the same for the client who has saved all his doo for spring pick up? The city manager hinted we are talking about rather large bags of the stuff. I am only using a Festiva so I don't have the cargo space for several hundred pounds per trip (though I am trying to convince the city to lease me a truck :-)>...

Message Date/Time:
Thursday, 01-Apr-99 00:19:16

Charging for simple pick-up disposal ... Greetings and salutations,

I am new to the poop scoop game and have a fee structure set up for picking up a yard and disposing the waste, but the City approached me to pick up the waste that pet owners have collected in their yard and take it to the landfill as by-laws prohibit the trashpersons from doing so. Do any of you do this sort of curbside service? How do you charge? If by weight, where do you weigh the...well...doo?

Message Date/Time:
Thursday, 01-Apr-99 01:30:26

Re: Charging for simple pick-up disposal ... Yes, I have found it quite profitable to do what I call "bag-pickup-only" service. I would have the customer put the waste in a plastic garbage bag (preferably double-bagged) and just drive by and pick up the bag. We would have the people place the bag at the curb on the scheduled pickup day.
It takes only a few seconds to pick up the bag. I charged my customers $3 per week. That was a standard rate, for 1, 2, or even 3 dogs.
If you had a great many customers you could charge very little and still make a good profit.

Message Date/Time:
Thursday, 01-Apr-99 12:22:01

Re: extra charge for extra volume ... No, I would charge extra for extra-big loads. :)
You know, if there would be a lot of customers involved in this deal, it might be worth it to rent a truck as needed.

Best Wishes!

Message Date/Time:
Monday, 05-Apr-99 20:22:29

Re: Re: the reply to Charging for simple pick-up disposal ... I am a pooper scooper. I have been putting the waste in my trash and the collectors will no longer pick it up. Can any other pooper scoopers notify me about what they do with their waste? Thank you!
Deimos72@aol.com

Message Date/Time:
Thursday, 01-Apr-99 19:34:27

Lists of Dog owners ... Hey everyone, I've got a question that I really need an answer to.

The City in which I live in and surrounding citys (3 at this time ) will not sell me a list of people who have bought licenses for there dogs. I was hoping to do some sort of mailing to see what happens. The city people just tell me its private. I even went as far as the freedom of information act. I would really like to do this and I need your help. Anyone!!!!!!! The state I live in is Virginia. I'm about ready to write my congressman. Thanks in advance.

Frank
K-9 Connections

Message Date/Time:
Friday, 02-Apr-99 15:02:13

Re: Lists of Dog owners ... I've had no problem getting lists from our licensing division for the county and main city. However, one of our suburb cities wouldn't give it to me. When I pressed them they said they didn't have a computer system that would print out addresses. I asked if they send out renewal notices for licenses--just to make sure they were telling me the truth :), but they said they couldn't even do that.

The woman I spoke with was skeptical that they'd give them out anyway--I just told her that the county did it, so why wouldn't they. That made her think. Moot point anyway.

Now we've decided to contact a local mailing list company so we can send out cards to that city. The names will probably not be as targeted, but they'll be better than nothing. They get their dog owner names from mailing lists that people sign on to at pet stores, and from other types of polls or surveys in the area.

Message Date/Time:
Friday, 02-Apr-99 23:19:29

Re: Lists of Dog owners ... Thanks for responding. I'll check for the renewal.

Frank

Message Date/Time:
Saturday, 03-Apr-99 09:23:28

Re: Lists of Dog owners ... I am not sure that the dog tag list would be the ideal many think it to be, even if they would sell it to you. I learned here that only about 40% of dog owners license their dogs, even though it is legally required!!

You might have better luck approaching your vets and pet stores

Message Date/Time:
Wednesday, 07-Apr-99 11:53:17

Re: Re: Lists of Dog owners ... To tell ya the truth, you are wasting your time (and money if you have to buy a mailing list) A few years back I contacted the city and asked for a list of all the people who had licensed their dogs. Th computer print out I picked up was 4 inches thick and printed on both sides! I took the time to go thru and highlight only the people with 2 or more large dogs(why bother with the tiny ones?)I ended up mailing out over 800 postcard type flyers(so they could see what it was about without opening a letter).The response truely sucked!!! I got TWO replies- both from irate (and obviously guilt-stricken)dog owners demanding to know where I got their address and who had turned them in. I have found over the years that your best advertising is #1-signs on your vehicle, #2-flyers at pet related businesses, #3 getting a word in edgewise on a local talk-radio show, #4-Word of mouth.Good Luck!

Message Date/Time:
Friday, 02-Apr-99 23:28:06

How many Scooping Businesses are in KY ... My friend and I are going to start up a scooping business in Louisville, KY and I was wondering if there are other services like this in Louisville? Anyone know? I have heard of a poop-scooping business in Lexington but not in Louisville.
I am so glad to know of Matthew's book (I'll be ordering it tomorrow) to help us get started. While I am not unfamiliar with dogs it's the business aspect of it all that I need help with. I have bred and shown basenjis and other breeds for the past 8 years and have worked as a groomer for a while as well.
Wish us luck!
Denise

Message Date/Time:
Monday, 19-Apr-99 16:18:16

Re: How many Scooping Businesses are in KY ... Hi Denise,
I too was thinking of starting a scooping business in Louisville! Would like to hear from you to see how you are doing. I have ordered Matthew's book and am really excited about this. I would love to work for myself.

Message Date/Time:
Saturday, 03-Apr-99 09:10:38

Open-ear marketing ... I do not have a marketing degree but I wanted to share something I have found to be a great marketing tool. Some of my favorite jobs were landed when the interviews barely touched on my qualifications but rather the ease of conversation. Being all business is a turn-off. Everyone has a story to tell, from the little old man next door to the president of the homeowners association. A good listener is rare these days and very refreshing to many people. Stay away from politics and religion. These conversations can become defensive. In our business, it's important to use warmth and humor. I met with the association president of a large gated community a few days ago. We walked the grounds together, talked about her world-travels, gardens, cats and kids. In the end she told me I have a wonderful business sense and will be very successful. Will I land the job? I don't know yet. But our meeting was extremely positive and even if I don't get this job I may get some good referrals. I would suggest when you set up a meeting with a potentially large client, give yourself a good amount of time. Do not be rushed. Opening up communication and then cutting it short can create a negative impression. Leave the client feeling like he is worth your time. It could not only make the difference in landing the account but also getting some high-profile word-of-mouth advertising.

Message Date/Time:
Saturday, 03-Apr-99 13:01:49

Re: Open-ear marketing ... Bravo, Trish!
Would that all those involved in marketing, business, or human relations in general practiced such careful attention to the needs of clients, prospects, and associates.
Thank you!

Message Date/Time:
Sunday, 04-Apr-99 10:45:05

Re: Open-ear marketing ... I've received so much good advice from this message board (and the doo-bible) I was glad to find something to give back. I wanted to mention that open-ear marketing also works when you are looking for new services for the business. When I applied for my mobile phone I got into a conversation with the saleswoman about the accomplishments of her grown son. I walked away with tons of specials, some were expired but she opened them up to me including, a $350 phone for $28, a $50 rebate, 1/2 price service for three months, a free hands-off unit for my van, and 1/2 of the base-fee for three months and no security deposit!

Message Date/Time:
Saturday, 03-Apr-99 09:16:50

Targeting special needs audiences and answering a tough question ... 1. Does anyone have an opinion on approaching local councils on aging and associations for the blind and disabled. Do you think it would be unethical to approach these associations offering discounts?

2. Right now I dispose of dog waste in my own trash but when people ask me what I do with it I tend to faulter in my answer because it may come off negatively. Does anyone who does as I do have a good reply to this question?

Message Date/Time:
Saturday, 03-Apr-99 12:58:15

Re: Targeting special needs audiences and answering a tough question ... Would it be unethical to approach organizations devoted to helping the aged, handicapped, and vision-impaired? No, not at all! In fact, it would be a very good thing.
Some of the people in these categories would be unable to keep their pets (maybe even their working assistance dogs) without the kind of service you offer. They will thank you for bringing your business to their attention.
Don't falter in your answer about what you do with the waste -- the faltering is the most negative part of the answer. :) Just say "It goes to the landfill," or "I dispose of it with my regular trash."

Matthew

Message Date/Time:
Wednesday, 07-Apr-99 10:39:03

Re: Targeting special needs audiences and answering a tough question ... Hey Trish - Waste going into a landfill is not a bad answer. We here in Chicago hired a Waste Management Company that picks up our containers
twice weekly. Problem is finding an area that is legal to keep this container. We rent three diffrent areas from industrial areas for our pick ups. the cost is not that high.

Message Date/Time:
Wednesday, 07-Apr-99 11:40:53

Re: Targeting special needs audiences and answering a tough question ... While you CAN take the time to contact such org.s etc., your best bet is to advertise in publications that are directed toward such people(local senior papers, newsletters). I expected to have a large percentage of handicapped customers but have found the facts to be otherwise. 99 percent of my customers are just too busy. you may want to add to your advertising a line offering a 10% disabled discount, but I stopped doing that because of the number of people who are not disabled asking for the discount( bad backs, and sprained ankles just don't quailify in me book)

Message Date/Time:
Thursday, 08-Apr-99 18:23:03

Re: Targeting special needs audiences and answering a tough question ... As Matthew said, you would be truthful to say that, "the waste is properly disposed of and goes to the landfill."

As an aside, a reporter asked us recently if we FLUSHED all the waste to dispose of it. Very gruesome thought...

Message Date/Time:
Monday, 05-Apr-99 21:34:51

order time ... Hey I was just wondering how long it takes to get THE BOOK in. I sent off for it last week.

Message Date/Time:
Tuesday, 06-Apr-99 05:33:19

Re: order time ... Hi Jordan,
Your check arrived today. Thank you! :)
Books are shipped the day after payment is received. Your book will go into the mail tomorrow and you should have it in a few days.

Thanks again,

Matthew

Message Date/Time:
Monday, 05-Apr-99 23:24:05

Marketing/MBA Project ... HELLO all of you pooper scoopers out there. I am doing an MBA project in a Marketing class. The product/service that I chose is dog waste removal.
I am just researching the topic. Do any of you know of any services in the Seattle area?
What do you find are the most effective means of marketing your business?
How do you figure out your rates?
Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks so much.

Message Date/Time:
Tuesday, 06-Apr-99 05:55:38

Re: Marketing/MBA Project ... The most complete listing of dog-waste removal services is the International Directory of Dog Waste Removal Services, a feature of the Professional Pooper-Scooper Pages at http://www.pooper-scooper.com
The Directory lists about 150 services in 39 U.S. states, Canada and Australia. Five of them are in Washington... one of those is in Seattle.
I have found a consistent classified ad in the neighborhood weekly papers to be a very effective way to get customers. Good signs on the vehicles and a customer referral program bring in business, too.
I tried to figure out the average number of customers I could serve in an hour. But rather than quoting a per-hour fee, I set a flat rate based on the number of dogs using a yard and how frequently service is scheduled. For instance: one dog, once a week: $6.50/week. Additional dogs, $3.50/week.
You'll find some more answers to your questions by carefully reading all the messages here on the Scoopers & Friends Message Board, and the archives residing at pooper-scooper.com.
For the most complete examination of how prices are determined, effective use of a number of marketing techniques, customer communications, and a great many details you may not have thought of, get a copy of my book, "The Professional Pooper-Scooper: How to start your own low-cost, high-profit dog waste removal service."
After all, an MBA's worth $31.95, isn't it? :)

Matthew
matthew@pooper-scooper.com
Matthew Osborn
P.O. Box 132308
Columbus, OH 43213

614-231-4101
FAX & VoiceMail: 888-453-0720

Message Date/Time:
Tuesday, 06-Apr-99 16:49:55

Front yard clean-up ... I was wondering if any of ya'll go over the front yard for poop. I've been in the business for about a year now, and that's one of the things I've always done. It's also great publicity because people actually see you out there.

Jordan
Lubbock Canine Waste Removal

Message Date/Time:
Wednesday, 07-Apr-99 06:00:29

Re: Front yard clean-up ... Good thinking, Jordan!
You'll also find piles from stray dogs that way.

Message Date/Time:
Wednesday, 07-Apr-99 11:31:23

Re: Front yard clean-up ... Well, if you've been in biz for a year you are just starting to build your customer base so, yes, scooping the front yard helps. However, I think you'll find a few years down the road, that a quick glance at the traffic areas of the lawn should cover things unless requested otherwise. The name of the game is speed (and thoroughness) if you want to make the big bucks. But take the time youv'e got now and use it to advertise. Signs on your vehicle should be enough for anyone who sees you, but I'm sure there's a dozen folks on that block that will never see you or hear of you unless you drop a flyer on their doorstep. Make it a habit of carrying some cards or flyers and walking both sides of the street(or around the block) when you get a new customer in a new area. The less driving you have to do between stops, the more money you can make! Good luck- It took me 6 months to get just my first customer. Too many newbies drop out of the biz because it's not making money as fast as they would like. Hang with it!

Message Date/Time:
Thursday, 08-Apr-99 18:19:47

Re: Re: Front yard clean-up ... 6 months must be the magic number! Like Rhonda, we didn't get a regular client until around 6 months. Just recently, we've had about 8 signup in the last 2 weeks. We aren't doing anything more or different than we ever did, so I guess it's just a matter of being persistent :)