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Messages archived from the Scoopers & Friends Discussion Board, going back to May of 1998. The discussion board board is an online forum about the business of pet-waste removal. Browse the messages, CLICK HERE TO SEARCH by keyword, or click here to participate in current discussions.

Message Date/Time:
Thursday, 14-May-98 16:33:28

Advertising ... I just started my own business in Huntington Beach, Ca. I was wondering if anyone had any good advertising tips?

Message Date/Time:
Saturday, 16-May-98 13:58:33

Re: Advertising ... Increasing awareness and word-of-mouth will result from the total cumulative effect of serveral marketing techniques. Sometimes, even those that don't seem to produce much new business will contribute to the overall effect.
Be sure to ask all your new customers where they found out about your business. By tracking where your business is coming from in this way you will know what advertising methods are producing the most profits and those which do not pull enough to pay for themselves.
Here are some of the advertising and marketing techniques that have worked for me (I hope others will reply to your question, too; I want to see how they are doing it. :)

Business Cards. Give them to anybody who asks what you do or is interested in any way in your business. Give three or four of them to each new customer; one for the wallet, one for the refrigerator, and a couple to give to their friends. Also use plastic cardholders filled with cards to sit on counters or tabletops at groomers, vets, and pet shops (of course, get permission from the propietor first).

Classified Ads: Consistent ads with your business name, a brief description of what you do, and the price of your service, run in the neighborhood weekly papers should be inexpensive and over time may prove to be your most consistent producer of new business.

Free Publicity: be sure to send out news releases when you first open your business, on each anniversary of your business, and whenever you notice a tie-in with your businesses and current events. News articles and tv news spots featuring your business are worth more than their space in advertising. This is probablyt he single most powerful marketing method there is for most small businesses. It's very low-cost. Yet it's also frequently overlooked or neglected.

Signs on Vehicles: Attractive, easy-to-read signs on your truck or car will prove one of the lowest cost sources of new business. Good signage on a pickup truck, computer-cut self-adhering vinyl graphics and lettering, may cost up to $200 per vehicle, but it lasts many years. I've had people driving on the road call from their cellphones and sign up when they saw our trucks. Also, seeing the same vehicles in the neighborhood regularly over time will help to build confidence and awareness of your servicen in the minds of the public.

Community Events: Many cities have humane society funraising events. You could volunteer your pooper-scooper services for a day in exchange for valuable media exposure.

Door-to-Door Flyers: If you have more time than money, this can be a way to add some customers to your list. Compared to other advertising, it costs more per exposure (especially if you count your time to distribute them), but in terms of absolute cost, you can print up several hundred flyers and pass them out for just a few dollars. If you make the flyers a third of a page, you can get three per sheet, lowering your copying costs.

Customer Referrals: Certainly let your clients know that you need and appreciate referals. You might even give them an incentive to tell people about you. I used to my customers one free service visit for each new regular weekly customer they would refer to us. We would tell them to have their friends mention them when they sign up for service, and then put a credit for one service call on their invoice.

Message Date/Time:
Saturday, 23-May-98 01:13:58

we were on cnn ... our local station here did a story on yucko's, than i started getting calls from out of state because others saw us on cnn, thought that was interesting, oh matt told them to write you for your book, i didn't have a number for them to call
debbie everyone take care sorry i haven't made it to the chats i'll keep trying the baby was sick or she up

Message Date/Time:
Monday, 25-May-98 21:39:36

Days of the week & Friday cleanings ... What days of the week do you do most of the cleaning? I would think that most people would like a cleaning just before the weekend, but not everyone can be cleaned on Friday (unless you are just starting out and have few enough customers). How do you handle a Tuesday customer who wants a Friday cleaning? What about charging more for the sought after Friday spots?? I would love to hear your thoughts. Thanks! -- Robert

Message Date/Time:
Tuesday, 26-May-98 21:57:16

Re: Days of the week & Friday cleanings ... Yes, most customers prefer Thursday or Friday service if they can get it. How you want to handle that is up to you.
In my business, I set up the areas of town I served on certain days of the week right from the start of the business. In later years, I changed the boundaries of these areas somewhat, and added twice-a-week service to more areas. I would just tell the customer which day of the week service was available.
But you might be able to charge extra for Fridays, or you might add part-time help on Fridays. I have thought about both of those ideas, myself.
I'd like to hear how others address this issue.
One thing you could do is set up your Monday through Wednesday routes closest to your office. That way, you could have set days you offer service on, but if a customer was insistent about having service closer to the weekend, you could accomodate that because it's close to home, anyhow.

Message Date/Time:
Thursday, 28-May-98 01:07:42

Re: Days of the week & Friday cleanings ... You know I am not sure there is an answer. But like you I think most customers would like Thr/Fri pickup. One reason is that on Sat/Sun are the days the kids are home, backyard cooking, and ofcourse the days that they cut the the grass. There are some customers that have their grass cut by someone else. If this is the case then perhaps one could schedule pickup just before that happens. I know contract grass cutters will do grass any day. This is one clue one can take. Find some contract yard cutters that will not pick up the poop but just let the wheels smash it all in the grass. Meaning, if some of these workmen would let you know which of their customers have dogs, you could let the owners know that you are available to come in just before they do. Maybe a finders fee would help these workmen remember what customers have dogs. Besides they would not need to step into all that mess. Around here, the workmen get about mimumn wage. Five dollars here and there would help. This is an idea I have been thinking about. One would not want the high-school boy to know what you are doing. Meaning if he cuts grass...he could do the poop.
This happen to me once, and I lost a customer. The same thing would apply to a small contractor.
That brings up another thing. People set and walk dogs for a fee. I one time thought that is all they wanted to do. So I gave them some of my business cards to pass out to their customers. Guess what....now they do walking, setting, and pooping.

Dick Sherwood

Message Date/Time:
Saturday, 30-May-98 00:23:13

Yards per hour ... I know Matthew was able to clean about six yards per hour as a pooper scooper. Having just started this year, I am looking at more like three per hour. :-(

Have others found that speed picked up as you gained more experience? I think part of my problem is I keep "looking" out of fear of leaving anything behind (I do not just cover the area once - do you just cover the area once & leave?). Any suggestions? Thanks!

Message Date/Time:
Sunday, 31-May-98 00:29:02

Re: Yards per hour ... How Matt did 6 per hour is beyond me. I find 30 min. ave. per customer is average for me. One needs to consider driving time too. If your customers are all together then I would say that it would be possible to have Matt's average. I have a friend that has 322 customers and in a newpaper artical she stated that it takes 10 min per customer.

Now I have only one guarantee.....and I do mean GUARANTEE. I guarantee that when looking for poop using a one direction approach you will miss 20% to 30% of it. I always come into a yard and search a North/South direction. Now matter how good your eyes are and how slow you take it you will not do a good job. Now after you have done your N/S you should start over and do a East/West search. Then always look close to the house and in small areas. Always take your time looking around Play areas for children because many of your customers called you in order to have clean children.

Now back to the guarantee. I bet anyone $1.00 that a one directional search will get not get it all. Try your method and then the N/S E/W search. You will be surprised.

What I am trying say is sometimes I am in a hurry to get it done and go on to others, trying to make more money per hour if you will. I am often tempted to go in one direction only. But because I do not want to lose a customer I always talk myself into the E/W search. And as always I come up with 20% more poop. So I say why worry do it right. Not only do I pick up the Poop I also pick up cig. Butts, paper, odd things that do not belong in the yard. I even clean out the dead grass killed by the female dog in order to give that area new life. Now when the customer is home to watch me...you bet I pick up all litter as well as poop. This is not to say that I will pick up trash.....The old saying "Use your head its the little things that count" or "S--t happens.

Dr Doo (Richard)

Message Date/Time:
Sunday, 31-May-98 01:47:47

Re: Yards per hour ... You do pick up speed (and also increase your cleaning efficiency) as you gain experience. Also, the more your customer list grows the faster your average will get, because drive time is less. You reach a point where each new customer is between two existing customers.
Yes, you should check almost all yards twice... run your search pattern in one direction when you go into the yard, and then run a pattern in a different direction as you work your way back out of the yard.
My 6 yard per hour average was over the whole week's work and includes travel time. Some routes go a little slower, some go even faster. Most of my employees didn't go quite as quickly as I did, but several did, and there were even a few that could average more than I did, with very, very few missed piles.
My employees were required to produce a minimum average of 4 yards per hour. But that's after several weeks of learning how to do the work and getting used to the yards, the routes, ect. More than one of them started out thinking that 4 yards per hour would be impossible, and then they would learn to do significantly more than that. And cutting corners or going so fast that you miss piles is absolutely not a way to do more customers per hour. I always guarantee the work, and returning to a yard to re-clean it sure doesn't help that production average.
It's not a trick. Efficiency is the key. With experience you learn to walk quickly from the truck to the yard, then go slower in the yard. You keep your eyes moving from side to side, adjust the width of your search strips according to the hieght of the grass, size of the poop, weather, etc. Haste makes waste, but so does dawdling.
You are right to look carefully for missed piles. It's sometimes very surprising to see how much you missed on a single pass.. or even with a double search in some cases. Eventually you develop a kind of sense for how you are doing. You get to know the yards and the dogs. Some yards may need a third search. You get to know which dogs produce a lot of poop and which ones don't make much mess.
You start thinking about where to park the truck so that a customer across the street sees your truck while you are cleaning one yard, and has the dog inside by the time you finish the first job and then you can go right into the second yard, for instance.
Seconds and minutes add up. I even learned to use Glad brand bags instead of cheaper ones, largely because cheap bags could take up to 20 or 30 seconds more to open up and line the scooper. If you're doing 60 customers in a long summer day, that means an extra half hour just because the bags didn't open as easily!
Averages increase when you do more customers, too. If you are driving clear across town for two customers in one day... your time could average one per hour! But if you have a full day and a route with 40 clients in a smaller area, you might do them all in 7 hours.
So don't expect to do 6 per hour in your first month, or maybe even in 2 months. But hang in there and you will definitely begin to find things clicking and both your speed and your quality will increase.

Message Date/Time:
Sunday, 31-May-98 21:48:18

Re: Re: Yards per hour ... I caught your message about cheap bags vs Glad bag. I have to confess...I use the cheap bags. I did not give it a though to how much time I was wasting. You have good working habits. I have a very big scoop with wheels on it. The scoop is like a very very large dustpan, with wheels and a bent handle. This dust pan can hold the whole yard worth of poop before I dump into a 10 gal plastic bag. I then twist and tie the bag with a knot. When I first started out I was useing large yellow leaf bags at a cost of 25 cent each. Then I switch to 10 gal cheap bags on a roll. The cost was 40 bags for 2.75 less a double coupon on 40 cents off. Guess what, you are correct in parting the opening useing up time.
Just the other day I caught myself licking my fingers to part the bad....Then I said to myself that was sure stupid.....those little germ critters can be crawing anyplace.

Richard (Dr. Doo)

Message Date/Time:
Saturday, 30-May-98 08:56:39

Multi Dog Pricing ... 3$ per additional dog would seem pretty costly -- maybe too costly for the multi-dog owner (who has, say, 4 dogs = $9 just for the added dogs). I am considering a pricing system like: +$3 for 2nd dog / +$2.50 for 3rd dog / +$2.00 for 4th dog / etc. I have not had the experience of cleaning a yard with 3 or more dogs yet. Would this pricing system be a big mistake in your experience? Have you had many 3-5 dog customers paying large somes per week for cleanings? I want to make it affordable, but also am interested in making some money along the way :-). Thanks!

Message Date/Time:
Sunday, 31-May-98 00:37:22

Re: Multi Dog Pricing ... A LITTER MATH PROBLEM FOR YOU

Customers have a funny way of looking a price. If a customer has someone cut his grass (front and back) for $20 how much would a Pooper scooper costs for three dogs.

Keep in mind that driving to an from that customer, walking in the yard, and the number of bags remain the same regardless how many dogs are involve. So the extra cost is the extra poop in the scoop. Do not overprice in your area. If you do then the customer will do for himself or have so kid do it. Just that simple....

Richard (Dr. Doo Litter)

Message Date/Time:
Sunday, 31-May-98 02:00:19

Re: Multi Dog Pricing ... In many cities, there is a limit of 3 dogs before a person is required to get a kennel license. Not that many people have more than three dogs. I've had clients with 4 or even 5 dogs, though. I think the only thing worse than charging too much is charging too little. Aside from the fixed cost of driving to the customer's yard, the amount of work and time increases with each dog. Once you're in the yard, 4 dogs are 4 times as much work as one.
Some people charge more than my prices. Some charge less. It's up to you. But I can tell you that over the years I've had very few people reject the service because they thought it cost too much. A lot more people were surprised at how low our prices were.

Message Date/Time:
Sunday, 31-May-98 19:13:48

Glad Bag Size? ... Matthew and the rest of the board,

Thanks again for the advice on the license, bonding, and insurance questions that I had.
I'll call the IRS phone number tomorrow to request the new business kit.

I'll also call my insurance agent as well.

I bought (don't laugh) a child's play shovel. It is made of heavy duty plastic, is light-weight, and has a wide mouth with a rim around the sides and back. To me, it appeared to be the ideal shape, size, and weight for doing the "dooty". I looked at shorter, steel shovels but they felt as heavy as my own big steel shovel and the head of the shovel didn't have that nice rim around it (to prevent sliding/spills). I bought it at Walmart for $1.00!!!(It had a Coppertone label on it).

Yes, I have yet another question... is it necessary to cover the head of the shovel with a plastic bag? Couldn't just hosing it off with water and disinfecting it with a spray bottle each time you leave a customer be quicker, easier, and economical compared to putting a new bag on the shovel head each time?

If putting a new bag on the shovel head each time is what you suggest (and you're the expert!), what size Glad Bag should I be using?

One last thing I have to say is a comment...regarding the poop in the yards...most dogs have a designated area that they choose to "go" in every time (this, of course, doesn't dismiss the need for checking the "entire" yard...Thanks to the person who suggested the N/S and E/W method. A great suggestion! However, to concentrate more on the favorite defacating areas seems to me to make more sense, but to "always" apply the N/S and E/W method without fail.

Thanks again all!

Limpeza@aol.com<

Message Date/Time:
Sunday, 31-May-98 23:43:35

Re: Glad Bag Size? ... Many of these issues (& MUCH more) are covered in Matthew's book which he is selling. The book is very valuable and he is charging a VERY low price -- I for one would strongly recommend it to anyone who's calling in life is to scoop poop (or at least who's calling is to pursue a great business opportunity!!!). From your note above it appears that you have not read it yet. The ordering info. is right here at this site. I have had it for a week & have been incorporating one tip after another -- it is putting me months/years ahead of where I would be -- thanks again Matthew! [Too bad it is not a prerequisite to have read the "Book by Matthew" before participating on the message board. This way we could all discuss issues at "the next level." (I am guilty of posting a question myself that was answered in the book -- I noticed it right after I submitted my questionoops.)]

Its funny you bought a child's shovel at Walmart!-- I did the same thing this past week! A shovel, hoe & rake for just $2 -- talk about low overhead! But it did not work out for me. I wanted to try a shovel for the softer stool I have been coming across in one customer's yard. The plastic shovel worked ok for the firm stuff (as I imagine just about anything would) but it just mostly smeared the soft stool across the grass making a real mess.

I part ways w/ Matthew on this point -- I have tried different tools, but I think the most effective has been a short metal rake which has its "teeth" very close together. It knocks the hard stuff well & I think it is easier to get doo out of the grass with it (especially long grass) than it would be to get doo out with a shovel. It mostly cuts through soft stool so that I must take more swipes at the grass to get more of the stuff, but like I said, my plastic shovel from Walmart mostly just smeared it across more blades of grass. Yuck! For consistently soft stool I am considering charging a soft stool penalty per dog. I cannot figure another way around it.

Message Date/Time:
Monday, 01-Jun-98 13:27:20

Re: Re: Glad Bag Size? ... Interesting how a diet of a dog differs from owner to owner. I agree a Small short spring action leaf rake does the job. On the extra soft stuff it always better to rake and rake, making sure you pick up all the dead grass at the same time. This method will help clean both the rake and the grass. I find it is much better to have as much dead grass in with your plastic bag. I have a heavy duty trashpan with a compartment to hold all of the poop,...having to dump only once save me time, time, time. The rake is a leaf rake only alot smaller. I will "pop" the item into the trashpan. Once the pan is filled, I dump into the plastic bag, I tie and put into the trunk. Tie good too...the smell will get to do after awhile. One thing I notice is even after you take a bath.....you still smell it. Now I wash my nose along with everything else.

Is not this work fun???????

Richard (Dr. Doo Litter)

Message Date/Time:
Monday, 01-Jun-98 13:13:41

Re: Glad Bag Size? ... As far as dog having a designated area is in a way true. However, some dogs can't seem to make up their mind. If it is raining, pampered dogs seem to do their thing as quickly as they can. Some dogs like to do it all under trees, some right by the home. It is an old wives tail that dogs will always poop as far away from the home as possible. It may hold true for their food...but in most cases their food is inside the house. I have a dog customer that always poop in two parts of the yard. This dog has it down pat. He poops 2 times a day. So each week I look for 14 poops. To get less, makes me look all over the place. I asked the dog's master what happen only to find out the dog was taken for a walk.

You will find that an owner with two dogs, look for four areas. With more that two....look all over the place. Another thing, I find dog grow tired with their area and create a new area. This often happens with the passing of winter into summer.

Tool, Toys? What ever works. How ever I suggest to you to look for better tools in the hardware store that are made smaller. With much use as I will get the toy tool would not hold up. As I say, in the hardware store you can find light tools to fit your need. Make the tool work for you and not you working for the tool.

R L Sherwood (Dr. Doo Litter)

Message Date/Time:
Tuesday, 02-Jun-98 13:24:19

Re: Re: Glad Bag Size? ... A lot of dogs do use the same general area to poop in every time. I remember one customer where the dog literally pooped in the EXACT same spot every time -- the dog pooped on top of his previous poop! That was a quick yard to clean, I'm telling you. LOL... one or two strokes with the shovel and that was it.
But dogs vary a lot, too. Some dogs will use all the area they have access to. Even in yards where there is a tie-out chain, you should make sure there's not poop in other parts of the yard. Some owners put the dog on the chain sometimes and let it run the rest of the yard other times.
I had a customer who lived in a three-million dollar mansion. They had a very small grassy area, but they liked for me to check a very large area that was covered with ivy. I would do it, of course; but I very rarely found more than one or two piles in the entire yard.
It turns out that they would have their butler take the dog for a walk in the neighborhood twice a day, and that's where most of the poop was going.
But job was to satisfy the customer, so I would do my very best and comply with the client's wishes. If it makes the customer happy, that's a job well done. :)

Message Date/Time:
Tuesday, 02-Jun-98 13:11:13

Re: Glad Bag Size? ... I think you'll find that it's kind of futile trying to use a plastic bag on the shovel. I do always use a clean bag in the scooper, but the shovel takes such impact and friction stresses that a bag would be torn to shreds most of the time.
I have found that keeping a good edge on the shovel makes a difference -- but I don't know why. hehe
I definitely recommend using whatever tools you find to work best for you. :) The tools I like work well for a lot of people, but I've seen good results with the small rakes, too. I've even carried regular yard leaf rakes in the truck for some of those first-time jobs.
Same advice goes for bags, of course. But I found the 13 gallon, "large kitchen" size bags to work perfectly in the Rubbermaid lobby pans I use as scoopers.